- Переезд в Стамбул
- Жизнь наших в Стамбуле
The country, which is washed by four seas, is the largest open-air museum and is called the country of tea and cats. Yes, you probably already guessed, it is Turkey. I wonder how our people live here? The heroes of our issue, who moved to live in Turkey, will answer this question. Stories of moving and what is real Turkey.
Meet this young family: Timofey (Tm), Olya (O) and their daughter Maya. In 2014, they were forced to leave Lugansk. They lived in China and then moved to Turkey.
Tatyana (T), who moved from Ukraine to Turkey, will also tell us about life in Turkey. 6 years ago, Tatyana and I met at the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul.
S: What did you do in Lugansk before moving?
A: I was a student, I was in my third year at university when it all started. No one stayed there. Almost everyone I knew left. Our university evacuated. And I was already finishing my studies, living in Kyiv remotely, working. Life turned out like this.
TM: Well, I have already finished my studies. My specialty is philology. Accordingly, as a philologist who graduated from university, I had two options. Either go somewhere to teach English, or go to work in a marriage. The first did not work out because wherever I went, forgive me, everything was already taken. In principle, I did not like it in the marriage. So I went there to build stoves, and something else. Well, and basically that’s how I lived with my parents. Why did you decide to move? In 2014, many decided to move. We did not decide, we were forced, it was not our free decision. We were simply left with no choice.
S: Where did you come from?
T: Just before leaving for Turkey, I lived in Kharkov and lived in Kherson for 25 years before that. I worked as an accountant. 18 years of experience as a chief accountant. I got so tired of the office that I had to change something. At first, I was here as a tourist. I went on vacation a couple of times, and then after a couple of years I decided to come here after all.
S: Why did you choose Turkey?
TM: We initially came to Kyiv in 2014. We also lived in Kyiv for some time. I, having failed to find a job as an English teacher in Lugansk, found one in China. We went to China. And after China, we came to Turkey. In detail. We were not going to stay here for long. We came because I arrived just before the pandemic. Maya was born. I came from China to Ukraine for two weeks. Literally to celebrate the New Year, pick them up and go back to China. And then the pandemic began, the consulate closed in Ukraine. And we could not get new visas to go to China. Then we were told that we can come to Turkey, get a tourist residence permit and apply with it at the consulate here. And from here fly to China.
We arrived. We received a residence permit, but the Chinese have already changed their rules. They started demanding that everyone entering must be vaccinated with a Chinese vaccine. The child is 2.5 years old, we don’t know anything, we have an order from above that everyone must be vaccinated. There is no clarification about children. Goodbye. Either leave the child somewhere and come, or don’t come. And so we stayed here.
S: Why did you choose Turkey?
T: The question is very simple. Because to go, this is my personal point of view, to go to Europe to live for euros, I considered it unacceptable for me. Comparing local prices and prices with Ukraine during my vacation. And still decided that Turkey, despite the fact that it is a Muslim country. Living here will be more or less comfortable.
Which city in Turkey did the interviewees choose?
C: Which city in Turkey did you choose and why?
A: We chose Istanbul because we already had friends here. Timosha had a friend, a Turkish girl. She was here too. She still lives here. They helped us rent an apartment here. It was harder to rent an apartment here without friends.
TM: Well, yes. People who have lived here for a long time know all the details. And they helped us find an apartment, negotiate. We weren’t worried that these could be some dishonest people. We didn’t even consider other cities. But Aizhan said that she was in Istanbul now. I am like that, I have friends in Istanbul. We came to Istanbul. This decision was made literally in a week and a half to two weeks. Because we had already been sitting in Severodonetsk in Ukraine for 9 months. The week began with the fact that this week we would be given the go-ahead to get a visa. And so we spent from January to November. 9 months and even more. And then they said that we could do this in Istanbul. And in a week and a half we bought tickets, packed our bags and flew in.
C: Which city in Turkey did you choose and why?
T: I didn’t choose. I was invited to Ankara. My acquaintance with Turkey began with Antalya and Alanya. Then there was a trip to Cappadocia. I came to live in Ankara with a small baggage of knowledge. A small idea of this country. So, are you living in Ankara now? No. I live in Istanbul now. It’s been almost a year. Before that, I lived in Ankara for two years. After that, I moved to Izmir. There for a year and a half, then there was Aydin. And the last one before Istanbul was Marmaris. A nice beautiful resort town, but it’s hard to find work there. Therefore, everyone’s eyes turned to Istanbul. As they say, all roads lead to Rome. In Turkey, to Istanbul.
C: How long have you lived in Turkey?
T: A year and a half. In Istanbul, it will be a year in June. In total, 6 years in Turkey.
About Istanbul
[tp_in_our_city_fly_shortcodes destination=”IST” one_way=”true”]S: Tell us something about Istanbul, its advantages and disadvantages, if any.
A: I see the disadvantages. S: What are they? A: It’s just that if you had come together without a child, maybe I wouldn’t have paid attention to it. We came with a stroller with a child, and here the infrastructure for pedestrians is very underdeveloped. If you’re with a stroller, in many places there are steps or parking, or the sidewalk is very narrow. A scooter is parked there, and if a car parks, you can’t get through at all. Of course, I really like this. And it’s quite hilly. So, if someone likes strength training already in the city. Istanbul is the perfect place for this. But if without a stroller, then you drag it around, of course, it’s very difficult.
S: Are there any advantages?
A: The big plus is the people. We have something to compare with. After China, the mentality here is much closer. Everyone is quite open, they will always help and they love children very much. It’s like a national love for children. It’s not like someone won’t help a child here, they give you a candy. You go into a bakery and they’ll definitely treat you to something. Maya, not me. I’m speaking for the children, it’s very welcoming. Once we were walking and there was some policeman. Or maybe they were guarding something here. Anyway, there was a bus with about 40-50 people in police uniforms with guns. I was looking at the bus with bars. There were buses with police officers. They were standing. That’s why I’m from Ukraine. Anyway, we saw Maya, she was getting ready to… On the bus. More. We took her, carried her away, and they caught up with us. They gave us dry rations, cookies, waffles. Wow. Great.
TM: Very tasty food, this is also a big plus. Especially compared to China. Of the three: China, Japan, Korea. China is the cheapest in terms of life. If in China I thought that there you come to the supermarket and there is no food. You need to know this, everything is in bags there. I go in and there is nothing to buy, little food. It’s all very sad. But for the Chinese, of course, it’s normal. But here in Turkey, you go to a store or a restaurant and think. You look at your belly and think. There are buns here. The food is fatty. Meat. Kebabs, Iskander kebab is an amazing thing. But it’s all so fatty. High in calories. Good. We went to different places, but I can name maybe 1-2 restaurants where I didn’t like it. And these were all mostly tourist places. It seems to me that they are not very concerned about quality because this is a tourist place. People came once, ate and left. And they don’t think about the fact that it should be tasty. It is not designed for people to walk around constantly.
Here we live in a district that is not touristic, so to speak. A residential district, not a landmark, and so the restaurants here are for their own people. This whole street, there are restaurants, bars and coffee shops. There is coffee on every corner, like pharmacies in Ukraine, there are coffee shops here. But there are also a lot of pharmacies here.
S: And where are we now?
T: Here we have on one side the Hagia Sophia mosque, which is already a mosque, it no longer has the status of a museum. On the other side is Sultanahmet Square. Can you tell us about Istanbul, about its shortcomings. For me, as a foreigner, Istanbul is a metropolis with many opportunities. There are opportunities for everyone here. One of my friends from Ukraine said that only the laziest will go hungry here. Yes, you can really earn money, you can find a job. In terms of living, yes, the city is very big, there are many foreigners. It is crowded and you watch the news. Something is always happening in Istanbul. Not always good things.
I am already married to a Turk. He lived in Istanbul until he was 17 and says that he does not want to move to Istanbul because it is dirty, crowded and in short, he does not want to. But we moved, no matter how much I insisted and because first of all it was important for us to find a job. In Marmaris, my husband also could not find a job. His business was also closed during the pandemic. And it is not easy to recover from all this. Advantages. In general, I can simply say about Turkey, I love public transport. No matter how strange it may sound. You can go everywhere with one card. There is a system of certain discounts. True, unfortunately, at the moment, transport is becoming very expensive. Literally yesterday they announced that everything would become more expensive. Today I already rode under the new tariffs. I looked.
S: I will add to what has been said. Cats are everywhere in Istanbul. They can be seen on the streets, in parks, restaurants and museums. This is the same ancient landmark of the city as palaces and mosques. In the park, local residents and the municipality put small houses for them so that the animals have a place to warm up and hide from the rain. And they install special feeders and waterers for the animals.
The story of Timofey and Olga’s move
S: How did Türkiye welcome you?
TM: In the first days, when we arrived, it was just rubbish. But we first found an apartment remotely. We thought we would come and find an apartment. It didn’t suit us. We looked at it in person. It didn’t suit us. We had to look for a hotel. While we were looking for a place to stay, we rented an apartment on Airbnb. It was such a district, also a tourist district, Taksimatta, the main square. So touristy, we went out in the evening, everything was unclear, noise, cold, raining. There are such people sitting in a tourist district. Friends. They generally say that in this district you should never do anything, here it’s okay, but if you go to the next street, you can’t either. And in general, you can’t live here. There are Arabs here, drug addicts here…
Where to live? It was raining, cold, Maya was one year and three months or four. It was stressful for her too. We arrived. At first she had lived there since birth, her grandmother, grandfather, aunt, friends. Then we went to Kyiv first, stayed there for two days, then we came here, she was just in shock. Until we found an apartment. Until we had already walked around. Until we felt the difference between the tourist part of Turkey and regular Turkey. Within Istanbul. When we were in Kemer, the tourist part was also very different from regular Turkey. We were sitting here, I said: Olya, let’s go back, we made a mistake. And when we had already settled in, when we found places, when we approached here, when we realized that in principle they don’t look at you with a predatory gaze as a tourist who came here. Probably with money. Olya told us about the relationship with children, about the food, besides, we ourselves had been here, seen everything. We started to like it much more.
The story of Tatiana’s move
S: How did Türkiye greet you?
T: I wouldn’t say it’s very good. We’re all foreigners here, that’s who comes. So don’t count. Yes, tourism is one thing, but living is something completely different. That is, there may be a negative attitude towards foreigners, both from women and men. Like questions like, why did you come here? Or what are you looking for here? I try not to pay attention to it. Because I think that everyone lives where they think they need to, to associate themselves with one particular place, because I was born in Russia, but I’ve never lived there. Turkey greets you differently. Not everyone is happy and cheerful. There are kind people, and there are not so kind people. It’s a Muslim country, you have to be prepared for the fact that they may judge you for something, maybe for excessively bright makeup or for your appearance. But this is not the case everywhere.
Difficulties of immigration
C: What difficulties did you encounter when moving?
TM: Search for apartments, because most often they rent out unfurnished apartments here, i.e. empty. Local Turks, they move in with their furniture. A truck transports it, they have everything. A sofa and appliances, also washing machines and refrigerators. People buy all this and move with it. It was difficult to find a furnished apartment with everything there. And with utilities connected. Because many of their apartments – the owner rents them out, but there is electricity, gas, water. They are not registered to the owner. When you move in, you have to go and register them in your name. In principle, this takes a day. It is not difficult, you have to go to the local Gorvodokanal, there to the electric company. And register all the documents in your name. And we are foreigners, in order to register documents in our name, we need a residence permit. We cannot get a residence permit without renting an apartment for a long term. That is, not like ours. I warned a week in advance. Although I know now they often sign a contract. There may be some other conditions, it will be from a year. That is, there is no such thing as for six months, for several months. Usually you sign a contract for a year. Sometimes for two or more. And we initially went thinking about China, so we went for 3-4 months. That’s what we were looking for. Well, we were lucky, we found it, we have wonderful owners. They were understanding.
By the way, there is another really cool thing about the apartment. The Turks have already told me this. When you rent an apartment in Turkey. Firstly, they have no right to kick you out if you regularly pay rent and bills. The owner only has the right to give you a notice that he asks you to leave the apartment. And from the moment you receive this notice, you have from 6 months to a year to find yourself a new place to live. And therefore, during this time, you can calmly live in this apartment, paying rent. No one can kick you out. And if they try to kick you out, you can go to court, and you are 99 percent sure that you will win this case. Plus, as we were told, if you are still, well, against your will, evicted. Whoever evicts you is obliged to pay for your move. That is, movers, things, when they move. They must also pay the agency, a deposit and two months for the new apartment. Well, again, this is according to the Law.
In Turkey, there is such a thing that even official representatives of some companies cannot help but be well versed in the laws. And say that we know nothing, goodbye. We had such a moment when Maya was being registered. They have an application where all the documents are on the phone. I can get a registration certificate from this application. I could not find one for Maya. I go to the passport office. They say get a certificate from the application. I say no. They say we know nothing. Get it from the application. I show it – it does not work. Does not find. They, we know nothing. Get it from the application. We went to them three times. Then he came with a friend, spoke Turkish and started arguing with them. He sent for the boss. The boss came and said, oh, you can’t get it online for children under 16. Let’s do it manually. And so until we started arguing there, looking for someone from above. This woman was sitting there and did not know the correct name. The one who issues and accepts papers. No, he says I won’t enter anything manually.
T: Just moving is difficult, no matter what country, and even more so flying on a plane. If you move, then you limit yourself in the amount of things you bring. Naturally, over time, I returned to Ukraine and brought something. I even brought small household appliances, sewing machines and a food processor. Now it seems simple. At that time, it was difficult. I missed some things when applying for a residence permit. And I have a kind of stain on my Turkish file, it is illegal residence in Ankara for a whole year. I left, paid a fine, and came back again. Now I try not to break the rules.
Mistakes of immigrants
C: What should you not do in Turkey upon arrival?
TM: If you are planning to go for a long time. I absolutely do not recommend renting an apartment through Airbnb. Because it is many times more expensive than through Turkish sites and even than renting a hotel. But in principle, I would not say that there are things that I do not advise doing. I do not advise going to Istanbul by car.
S: How much money did you take with you to Turkey?
Tm: When we arrived, 5 thousand dollars. Then another 1000 dollars was 8000 lira, not 15000. And it turns out we, a hotel, housing. Housing is what we paid for the apartment for the first month, + agency fees + deposit. That’s all there was 3400 lira for the apartment, 3400 agency fees and 3400 deposit. That was 1000 dollars. And then we bought some little things, for example, I dreamed of granite dishes, like pots with a stone coating. That’s it. Olya went to buy. Who cares, we’ll take them to China later. In the end, we stayed. For all this, for the first time, for the registration of housing, plus some essential things, we spent 2000-2500 dollars.
C: What should you not do in Turkey upon arrival?
T: You don’t go to someone else’s monastery with your own rules. That’s why when you come here you just have to pay attention to how people live. It’s different in different cities, for example, Istanbul has a lot of tourists. It’s practically a European city. They don’t pay attention to how you dress, how you behave, how you talk, loudly, quietly. Or something else. Let’s say Ankara, they call it a city of officials, but people there are calmer. I lived on the outskirts of Ankara. Mostly closed women. I didn’t stand out much at that time, I didn’t know Turkish very well. It all depends on your inner state, you yourself will understand what you shouldn’t do here.
C: How much money did you take with you to Turkey?
T: I was traveling, so to speak, practically light in terms of money. I had a suitcase of things and about 200 dollars. And I thought I would go and check it out, like it, and stay. No, I would run away. That’s why I didn’t take much.
Turkish
S: Did you know Turkish before moving and how are things with your Turkish language now?
TM: We didn’t know before moving. Now, we haven’t studied it on purpose during all this time that we’ve lived here. Not because we don’t want to, but simply because we haven’t had time. For example, when we first came here, I continued working at a Chinese university online in China. It was because of the time difference that my classes started at three in the morning here. I’d wake up at half past two, sit down and teach classes in China. And then I’d have some other part-time jobs, and constantly translate. There’s simply no time for that. And when I have time, I either want to go for a walk or do something else. Nevertheless, I know more or less some basic things at the level of, say, A1 A2. I already know Turkish, because apparently there’s some kind of special feature about it, I talked to someone on the playground, there was an ad in a store, and something else. Basically, at the level of going to the store to buy something, going to get documents for myself or something else. I can even go to migration without a translator now and, in principle, I’ll cope there. Olya is more difficult in this regard because she doesn’t pick up the language from her surroundings. And she needs to sit down and study with a teacher.
Now I will also have the moral strength to study because when the war started it was hard for me to even teach classes at the university. I asked someone to replace me for a couple of days. I haven’t collected my thoughts yet. We are already planning to find a teacher and study purposefully. I would like to speak it more fluently, and Olya would like not to speak it at all. There were no problems with this because we don’t know the language. There is a telephone translator. They even speak Russian in the Ennard store. In most cases, they also understand English at a casual level. Therefore, there were no particularly big problems in Istanbul.
T: I was lucky, I learned Turkish before moving to Turkey. It was back in 2009. I went to courses because I was planning to go here. I was interested in the language itself, the culture, the country. But I couldn’t go at that time. I finished the courses, got a diploma and successfully forgot Turkish. Naturally, when I started going on vacation, I already came here with the thought that I would stay. So, communication was difficult at first. Because I forgot. Reading and writing are easy. Speaking, yes, there was a barrier that was not easy to overcome. Now at the moment I sometimes work as a translator at exhibitions. When I help people who do not know Turkish. In everyday life, I know Turkish perfectly. In some special specific areas, you have to kind of read some information to learn the terms. For example, dentistry, medicine, communication with a lawyer or, say, with a manufacturer of some goods. In general, I already know it well.
How much money do you need for a comfortable life in Turkey
C: How much money per month do you need to live here comfortably?
TM: For food it comes out to about a thousand to one and a half thousand lira per week. This includes buying meat and cheese in the store. Buying vegetables and fruit at the market. Ordering food once or twice. It’s very tasty here and they bring everything. And maybe going to a restaurant somewhere once. If you like to socialize more, then it comes out to 2000 lira per week. 2000 lira is about 120-130 dollars per week. Closer to the minimum, then it will be about 4000-5000 lira per month. I think if there is rice, chicken, every day, then it will be 2000-3000 lira. We currently have a three-room apartment. We rent it for 4000 lira, which is somewhere around 250-300 dollars. Now you can’t rent an apartment at that price, because, firstly, the crisis hit. The lira has collapsed, apartments have gone up in price. We are now renting an apartment in lira cheaper than when we arrived. The price in lira has gone up, but in dollars it has turned out to be lower.
And then, when the war started, Russian refugees started coming here. Mostly Russian refugees who are fleeing Putin’s regime. These are all kinds of programmers who work online. And they come and don’t really look into the situation here. They come and start looking for an apartment there for a thousand dollars, and the Turks quickly got the hang of this trick. And they started setting prices for all apartments starting at a thousand dollars. So, an apartment that could be rented, for example, two months ago for 8,000-9,000 lira is now being rented on websites for 15,000-16,000 lira. Because people come who are actually ready to rent for this money. For Turks and for expats who have lived and worked here for a long time and receive a salary in Turkey, this is a lot.
T: Considering the inflation that has happened in Turkey over the past year, and it is more than 50%. To be comfortable, it would probably be 5,000-6,000 lira, no. Maybe 6,000-7,000 Turkish lira per person. And for a family, 13,000-15,000 lira. That would be more or less. That would be comfortable, that is, if, for example, you don’t have a place to live. You have to rent, plus utilities have become much more expensive, this is electricity and gas, for example, in winter, and we heat the apartment, it turns out expensive. It’s summer now, but in Istanbul, summer is not very hot. But in Marmaris, a lot of electricity is consumed, because of air conditioners.
Work and business in Turkey
S: Is it possible to find a job or start a business in Turkey? And if so, how difficult is it?
TM: Regarding business, I don’t know the details, but I was told that it’s done quite simply here. You need some initial capital and some Turk who will help you with the paperwork.
If you compare with China, where for a foreigner to open a business. You must have a Chinese partner, Chinese capital and Chinese workers and so on. Here it is easier, from what I hear, because I have not tried. I am a teacher, I got a job at the university without any problems. My British diploma probably helped me a lot with this. Because I completed my master’s degree in England. Many foreigners from Russia and Ukraine work not at universities, but at private schools. But in my opinion, the conditions there are much worse. And the attitude, judging by the stories, is also much worse. I have a friend, she is Russian-speaking, she worked here at a private school. She says that their working day there is from 8 am to 6 pm – these are lessons, plus class management, plus clubs, plus magazines, plus papers and so on. And for this she received a salary of 6,000 lira. Outside of school, they mainly work in beauty salons or restaurants.
T: Coming here on a tourist visa and living here on a tourist visa, you can’t work, of course. You can find a job, but I didn’t set myself the goal of finding one in order to get a work visa. You can open your own business, how difficult it is depends on how much you are ready to spend your own efforts and resources. But in general, it is real. The fastest way for a foreigner here is to open his own company, like an LLC, within a week. This is called Limited şirket, a limited liability company. Or you can open a joint-stock company, it is a little more complicated in terms of the opening process. I recently studied materials on the Internet, but it is also possible. Private entrepreneurship is not available to foreigners, only to citizens of the country.
S: What do you do in Turkey?
TM: I teach English. I do online translations as a freelancer. I currently work at a university. We work online. I have 2 to 4 hours of classes a day, plus exams and meetings sometimes and that’s it. The salary is 8,500 lira.
T: There was a time when I did nothing. Then I worked as an online copywriter for a year and a half. I wrote a lot of articles for sale on the stock exchange. A lot was written about Turkey. But since I do not have any diplomas or specific experience, I am self-taught. So this work was not profitable. Now in Istanbul I have the opportunity to find a job as a translator. What I do regularly, I go to exhibitions. I help with translations, for example, in government agencies, in hospitals to draw up some documents. And I am engaged in intermediary activities, in English it sounds like bayer, you can just say an intermediary. Yes, if you are planning to make a wholesale purchase of some light industry goods, then I will help you with this. I have a customer base. Contacts. I know where it is, where the stores are, that is, orders are sent to me. I collect and send abroad. I do not officially work. I do such work so that it is not associated with any regulatory authorities.
S: What is your current monthly income approximately?
Tm: Turkish salary is 8500 lira. That’s about 600 dollars, plus freelancing from 1000 dollars a month. From 1000 and up, depending on luck. Total income is from 1500-1600 dollars and up. Again, most of it is freelancing.
T: Approximately, now I can quickly figure out how much the rent is, the payment for everything, and what remains in hand. In general, a little lower than I would like. We are trying to move towards improving our own financial situation, but it’s just that the last two years there was a pandemic. And then the war happened, this also affects my intermediary activities. Clients from Russia and Ukraine have not yet shown up, they are not ordering anything. The pandemic, as a result, inflation, everything is getting more expensive. 5 years ago, it was more comfortable in Turkey. Although now, let’s say, everything is learned in comparison, it’s not bad here either.
Utility expenses
S: How much do you spend per month on utilities, electricity, water?
TM: I am very pleased with the utility prices here. Despite the fact that they have recently gone up. But they are still pleasing. Water costs around 50 lira per month. And this is despite the fact that we do laundry every day, we have a dishwasher every day. The dishwasher is generally a great thing. We did not use it before. Plus the child takes a bath every day. She also likes to splash around in the tap, rinse her mouth, and do other things. It turns out that 50 lira is 100 hryvnia for water per month. For electricity, somewhere outside the air conditioning season, it is around 250 lira, and this is despite the fact that the computer has two monitors with lamps that work almost constantly. There is also a TV, some movies from the laptop. And gas in the winter, the heating was turned on in February, it was 600 lira, that is 1200 hryvnia. But our heating was on full blast all February. I generally hate the cold, so it’s hot at our house.
C: How much does a square meter of an apartment cost?
TM: We need to calculate. Depends on the area. For example, we were thinking about staying here for a long time. Save up some money and buy an apartment. Not in the center, but about 30 km from the center. And this is not the outskirts. This will only be the middle ring of the city. You can buy an apartment for 2 + 1 apartment, that is, for 100 square meters you can buy for 60,000-70,000 dollars. And if in this area, where we are now. Here, apartments are somewhere from 150,000 – 200,000 dollars of the same size and area. Because this is the center, yes, this is a very popular place. Here is one very popular Barnaya Street, the Bosphorus. If you also buy somewhere on the floor from which you can see the Bosphorus, there is another plus 50,000 dollars. It all depends on the location, that is, in fact, it is very realistic, not on the outskirts, but in the middle of the city to buy an apartment for 50,000-60,000 dollars. If it’s a one-room apartment, then even less.
S: How much do you spend per month on utilities and water?
T: I live in the Esenyurt area. By Istanbul standards, it is not a very prosperous area. It is believed that many foreigners live there. At the moment, foreigners are not allowed to register there. In general, for utilities, we spend 200 lira on electricity. Water up to 100 lira. Gas in our three-room apartment 2 + 1 in Turkish is called. The largest amount we paid for gas was in January, it was cold. Almost 900 lira, but at the moment it is already warm, and I have not turned on the gas for three or four days. Savings, long live savings and summer!
C: How much does the rent cost approximately?
A: We rented an apartment in that area. At that time it was 2000 lira, that was recently 7 months ago. At the moment I was helping my compatriots find an apartment. There is such an application. I constantly look for something with it, maybe some purchases there, including renting an apartment. 1 + 1 on average starts from 3500 lira. And then the prices are not limited. That is, if you want more luxury. If you want more equipment, better furniture, then on average 5000-6000 lira. 1 + 1 or 2 + 1 can be found. I am not considering more expensive options. Our apartment is inexpensive. We rented it very cheaply because it is unfurnished. And now we are waiting, our lease ends in October. We will see how much the owner will raise us. But such is the system. There is a certain rental management body. I recently learned that in accordance with inflation, a person who rents out housing can only raise the rent by a certain amount. This is not something that is made up from scratch. But even 50 percent is still a lot.
About medicine in Turkey
S: Have you had any experience with medicine in Turkey? If so, what were your impressions?
TM: We have. We have encountered both private and public ones. When we first arrived here, in order to get a residence permit, you need to get insurance. But there are some cheap insurances that were issued for a year. This was before the crisis. We issued it for a year for 200 lira. In fact, as I understand it, it either covers nothing or little. And there was a moment when Maya had a fever. And nothing brought it down. And there are four hospitals near our house. It was night, it was two or three in the morning. So we took a taxi to one hospital. They told us that we don’t have a children’s ambulance here, go to a private hospital. And we went to the public one first. We arrived at the private one. They looked at everything there. The doctor there said something to us in English. I understood what she was saying. But she still called the interpreter later. And she spoke to him on the phone with the interpreter, and then he translated for her. In the end, Maya just had some kind of intestinal infection. She had a fever that Ibuprofen wouldn’t bring down, so they gave her a Citramon suppository. And then they gave us a bill. Like 520 lira for the doctor’s examination and one lira for the medicine itself. But it was a private hospital and without insurance.
Now, since I officially work here, we have state insurance SGK for me and my family. We have never had to go to the hospital with serious cases under it. But as far as I understand, the state one covers it completely in many cases. Unless it is some kind of serious operation, there will be a percentage. And if you go to a private one, SGK covers 60%. That is, for example, you come to a private clinic to get an x-ray or ultrasound. It costs 1000 lira, for example, you will pay only 400 lira, and 600 lira will be covered by insurance. Plus, you can do it with a residence permit, you are registered with a family doctor. Here in all the districts there are such small houses. At least in ours, it is a very small two-story house. It is called the “Family Center”. There are two doctors there. And if there are any problems, you just take your residence permit card and come there. There is a live queue. Basically, you have to wait in line for half an hour in the morning. There’s a doctor there and he examines you. If it’s nothing serious, he either prescribes antibiotics. By the way, you can’t buy them here without a prescription, which is a great blessing. For me, because I know that many people really like them. Or something else. If there are already some serious problems, he writes out directions to the hospital and you need to go to the hospital. And there they do an X-ray and everything. But we’ve never gone there. Only Maya, we went to the doctor with her. He looked at you quickly. Gave her a candy, gave her something else. You can’t do without it here, as I understand it. He wrote out a prescription and went across the street to the pharmacy.
Medicines are very cheap. The prices for medicines still amaze me. Here they are 10 times cheaper than in Ukraine. At least those that are most needed.
T: I have. The insurance that a foreigner buys to obtain a residence permit can be considered formal. You can buy an expensive one, but it will be of little use. I had good insurance in Ankara from the Alliance company, one of the best insurance companies. I used it. It was five years ago. A doctor’s examination cost 35 lira. The prices are quite normal. Then I had another, cheaper insurance and it turned out that even if I went to a clinic that worked with this insurance company under the insurance policy, a doctor’s examination would be very expensive for me. And it turned out that I found out. And at that time it was like that. According to my policy, a doctor’s appointment costs almost 200 lira. If I go to a state hospital, the price is 50 lira. That was then. Now I live not far from the clinic. I found out that at the moment, if you have a residence permit, a doctor’s appointment costs 180 lira. But in any case, it is twice cheaper than in private clinics.
Mixed impressions. I like the system, for example, that I have already gotten used to. That is, you go to the clinic, get a ticket from a special machine, like a ticket. And then you go to the queue near the office. A monitor on which your name and surname are written, please, come in. It is not like you can come up with something in your head and go get tested. First, to get a referral, you have to go to the doctor. In Ukraine, this system is also already being introduced, but for me it was unusual. Service. Good equipment. The clinics are always well-maintained. What do you pay attention to? They try to be polite and helpful.
I have heard from my friends, as if about the opposite things. It is unpleasant that they treat you negatively simply because you are a foreigner. I have heard that someone was unlucky with the treatment there, for example, and this is not one example, not a single one. Let’s say someone’s teeth were treated incorrectly. One friend was diagnosed incorrectly, treated incorrectly. But this is probably the same lottery, I don’t want to say, like ours. What kind of doctor will you get. In Turkey, medicine is famous throughout the world. And I know that people come here to do aesthetic surgeries, dentistry, hair transplants, to lose weight and all that stuff. And they say that treatment here is cheaper for more serious diseases than in Europe. I have not encountered this myself, but I know that this is so.
S: What can you say about schools in Turkey, can foreigners study here?
TM: Depends on the school. There are state schools. You can only enroll in state schools if you have a residence permit. And at your place of registration, as far as I understand. This is a Turkish school, so the teaching will be in Turkish according to the Turkish program. And you can enroll, and then do as you wish.
S: There are no Russian schools?
TM: There are several Russian schools, there is a Russian school and a Ukrainian school here. The question is because there is one or two of them in the whole city.
C: Are they overcrowded?
TM: Not that they are overcrowded, that is, with all the desire to live here. And I know that there is a Ukrainian school, but it takes us two hours to get to school by transport. Maya now goes to a Turkish kindergarten. We are hers. There are two types of kindergartens here, there is a state and a private one. The state one starts at three years old, but we sent her to a private kindergarten at two years old. The private kindergarten costs us 2,200 lira a month now. But the teachers there are very cool, they play with her there, there are a lot of different activities, to the point that a pottery workshop came to them and they molded something out of clay. And Maya is already slowly starting to speak Turkish. Therefore, if we stay here for a long time, I will send her to a Turkish school without a twinge of conscience.
I don’t think that school is a place where a person gets an education. It’s a place where a person gets life skills, socialization, communication, problem solving, and so on. And there are private schools. To be honest, I don’t know the price of private schools. But 6,000-7 lira per month, no less. These are schools where teaching is often in English. That is, they start doing everything in English right from the first grade. As for the quality of education, well, I can only rely on the words of people who worked there. Like teachers. No one really cares about the quality there. Maybe in some super-cool ones everything is up to par. But in ordinary private schools, no one really cares about it.
There are kindergartens with a residence permit. In a state one with a residence permit, definitely. In a private one with a residence permit, but we were given one then, when we were still registering there, we were given a form to fill out. There we had to enter the residence permit number, the name of the family doctor. I entered it, but in the end Maya has been going for almost a year now, I still haven’t submitted the form. Many universities offer instruction in English, if foreign students come, they must either confirm, that is, provide a certificate of knowledge of English or Turkish, and then they can immediately begin their studies, or if they don’t know either of these languages, they can choose either Turkish or English and the entire first year of university will only be spent studying the language.
I work at the university now and I have first-year students, both Turks and foreigners. There are also some from Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Syria. I just teach them English the entire first year. And from the second year, some will go to psychology, some to political science. In general, to their specialties. Education is state-run, state schools are free.
S: What can you tell us about schools in Turkey, can foreigners study there?
T: I have a friend from Russia, she has twin girls, they are 11 years old. They go to school. What do they like? I know this information first-hand. They are very loyal to the children. There is no such thing as a teacher raising his voice and it is very rare that the kids just sit on your head. They try to help. Naturally, the girls do not know Turkish. The kids somehow begin to get their bearings faster. But additional lessons are still needed.
Climate in Turkey
S: Did the climate in Turkey suit you?
TM: I like the climate here more than in Ukraine. This winter was cold and even in March it snowed. And snow in Istanbul is a disaster because when it snows the kindergarten closes, delivery does not work, almost 100 stores close. The whole city is deserted while it snows. I like it here, I really like the warmth. Even in the summer, when it is extremely hot here. I still enjoy it. Olya suffers when it is hot because she does not tolerate heat so well. In the winter we thought it would be warmer.
T: I had a dream to come to Turkey to the sea, closer to the palm trees, to the warm sea, sand. It didn’t work out quite that way, I came to Ankara, and the sea is far away there. Yes, we lived in Marmaris for a year. I really liked this sea. The season lasts more than half a year there. Starting from the beginning of May and people swim until December. Go for walks. The climate suited me very well. I like it, the only thing is the heat. When there are a couple of months when it is very hot, it is naturally hard. Here in Istanbul, I can say that the climate is moderate and I also like it, there is the sea on all sides. So to speak. One drawback is in the summer, when it is very hot, it is very steamy. The humidity is very high, because the city is surrounded by water on all sides.
S: How is the food situation in Turkey? Have you found your favorite products?
Tm: Buckwheat, you can find it, but it is not popular. I asked about buckwheat, it’s just that in England and China we brought buckwheat with us from Ukraine. Here it is not, or rather it is, but it is not very expensive and to be honest I have not even tried sausage. There is no sausage as such here. It is, but it is quite expensive and to be honest I have never tried it and I have no particular desire. But in principle everything is the same. There is no such cottage cheese. Cottage cheese is saltier. And kefir? There is kefir, ayran is great. I tried ayran for the first time here and I really liked it. In principle there is a lot of different dairy products here. Is there more choice? What is this butter called? There is butter separately, and there is this thing, like cream or cheese, it is something akin to butter. Yes. It is that kaymak.
S: What are your favorite grocery stores in Turkey? Supermarkets?
TM: So, I mainly go to the market to buy vegetables and fruits. For everything else, there are several supermarkets here. There is A101, a supermarket. This, as the Turks explained to me, is a chain store that belongs to one of Erdogan’s relatives. And the funny thing about this store is that it is subsidized by the state. That is, the products there are cheaper than in all the other stores. There are sausages in Carrefour, which is like our Novus, for 25 lira, and when you go to A, they cost 15 lira. So for things like that, for meat, for milk, for all those things, we go there. In principle, they are practically on every corner here. We have two of them near our house. There is Migros, which is something like a Ukrainian ATB. O: No, I would say that A101 is ATB. TM: Okay, Migros is something mid-level. They are big and small. At home, we have Migros Jet, which is the smallest one. Migros mini is a little bigger. Here, in my opinion, Migros MMM is big. And they come in different sizes. This is just a regular supermarket. Without any perks. But they have a Migros card. You get a card from them. And they often have promotions, which are discounts on products and only with this card. There are quite big discounts. Basically, we go to dishwasher tablets and wait for a promotion. 170 lira, and then with the card it will cost 90 lira. And there is Carrefour, also like Migros, they also come in different sizes. It is more like the Ukrainian Novus.
S: How are things with food in Turkey? Have you found everything you need?
T: I am an unpretentious person in terms of food, but let’s say I missed buckwheat for a very short time. There is a chain of BIM stores. Where our buckwheat is sold next to exotic cereals. And in large stores like Migros you can also find oatmeal and buckwheat there. And, as far as I understand, it is of higher quality than in Ukraine. I have practically gotten out of the habit of sour cream, but they have already taught me how to make it. And in Ankara, when I was already living for the second year, I also saw sour cream written in English on the shelves of supermarkets. It was very interesting. There is also kefir here, it is a little different from ours. The quality of products in Turkey is very high. Because it is monitored by GOSTs and for violation of standards there are very high fines and deprivation of the manufacturer’s license. Therefore, I have not encountered bad products. I have not eaten pork for a long time, so for me this is not an issue. There is no herring here. I learned to make herring myself, that is, salting fish is not difficult. It is also not difficult to salt red caviar.
Earlier, about 5 years ago, red caviar could be bought at the market and at fish stalls inexpensively. And now people have realized how much it costs and how it would become more expensive, but it is still not a question. Everything else here is in abundance, vegetables and fruits. What are your favorite grocery stores? In terms of variety, I like Migros, that is, this is a store where I can find all the products that I eat. Also, if you look at the Carrefour chain of stores, it is a good chain. There are often good promotions there. These are supermarkets that sell not only food, they also sell food, and it also happens that hypermarkets have clothes, shoes, everything for the home. I like it. And so, to run out to the supermarket and quickly buy, this is one of my favorites, BIM is a chain of discounters in Turkey and the prices are reasonable and the quality is not bad. And these stores are everywhere.
Safety in Turkey
S: How is the security situation?
TM: I can’t say about all of Turkey, I can’t even say about all of Istanbul. Again, when we arrived, the Turks told us that there are drug addicts here, drug dealers here, Arabs here, and so on. We live in a very safe area, as far as I understand. As far as the Turks themselves told us, that is, friends from Ukraine came to visit us here. And, in my opinion, we either left the stroller at the entrance to the store near the door to the store. No, we left the stroller too. They brought us water and they just put a bottle of water on the platform for us. I put money on top of the bottle, and we left. And they were surprised, like wow, you’re not worried, how can you. Where we live, this is allowed. That is, I can calmly leave the stroller with bags from the store down there near the door and go to another store. Come back in 20 minutes, everything will be in place.
At the same time, there are areas, and we have friends living there, we have to go to them by metro for half an hour. It turns out that he is Turkish and she is Kazakh. She also worked with us in China. Anur is a very cool guy. He does not allow her to go to the gym, which is near the house. And not because he is Muslim. He is a very cool, forward dude. He does not allow her to go because this is an area where there are a lot of refugees from Syria, a lot of Arabs. And he is worried that they will look at her askance there, or he is worried that she will be uncomfortable there. Do not go there, go where there are fewer of them. And there are areas where we have not actually been there. But there are areas where they just stand on every corner selling weed. There are areas where we were told that transvestites live. I can’t say that these moments would bother me much if I lived there, for example, in an area where transvestites live. I would even be curious what transvestites look like. In terms of crime, in terms of safety, we were told that this area was safe, that one was unsafe. Why? Well, that’s how it is.
T: God has been merciful. I have never gotten into any such troubles. In terms of theft. You have to be careful in Istanbul and I warn you too. For example, in public transport, be very careful in your pockets, bags in front, do not leave anything in your pockets. Because I have seen it happen a couple of times. People were robbed in public transport. Of course, this is not the case in small towns. In Marmaris, when we lived there, it is customary in Turkey to leave shoes at the door. For me, this was new. In Marmaris, our beach slippers were stolen. After that, I do not leave shoes. In general, this is a megalopolis, so life here is a little different. Neither in Ankara, nor in Izmir, and especially in small towns, I lived in a separate province of Marmaris, where you rarely hear that someone stole something or robbed someone, or beat someone up. But in Istanbul, you watch the news and understand that at least this did not happen to you, and that is good. Because very much. There are also reports about foreigners. It becomes scary. Life in general is kind of dangerous.
How to move to Turkey
S: How can I move to Turkey? About temporary residence permit and permanent residence permit?
TM: It’s not that difficult. Of course, it’s easier if you already have some friends who either speak Turkish or are Turks. Having moved to Turkey from Ukraine, you can stay here for three months without a visa, without any problems. Without registering anything. If you want to register, you can do it here without any problems. Of course, now it’s become more problematic because they started requiring a bank statement. They didn’t require it before. But again, they officially require it. Then you can bring it when submitting documents. Some will take it, and some will say no, it’s not necessary. Getting a residence permit here by renting an apartment is not a big problem. You need a contract, you need completed documents. If my wife and I have a child, we needed marriage and birth certificates with an apostille and a translation into Turkish.
T: The conditions for a residence permit have changed a little bit now. Previously, they gave an initial residence permit for a year to foreigners and the conditions were a little simpler. Now they have become stricter. In terms of the fact that you must provide financial security, show some documents, that you came for six months and you have an amount of 500 dollars for each month. You must show that you have this amount. For residents of Ukraine, it seems like some points are omitted because they understand that people are not fleeing here from a good life. They give an initial residence permit for six months. The next one can already be requested for a year or even 2. Permanent residence is a more serious approach. And you will not get it right away. If you live here for eight years on a residence permit, you can get an indefinite residence permit. To do this quickly, you need to buy real estate. Previously, it was 250 thousand dollars, now the amount has doubled, that is, real estate for half a million dollars and in a year you can assign citizenship. Also by birthright, this is for children. Also, if you are a large entrepreneur, let’s say you came to Turkey, you can open your own company and employ at least 100 local people, please, citizenship.
S: Marriage? T: Yes, by marriage. I’ve been married for a year and a half, in a year and a half I’m applying for citizenship. That is, three years after marriage, then collect the documents and apply. And the waiting process can take from 6 months to a year. Sometimes they say even more. Everything is ahead, I’m waiting for it to happen.
S: What can you say about the Turks? about their mentality? What is the main difference from ours?
A: I don’t know, I can’t say there are any such cardinal differences. It’s difficult. People are like people. I could say about the Chinese. There’s a lot there. I would say a chasm. And here there’s a great love for animals, for dogs, for cats. We went out for a walk in the evening. We and the dog owners went out. There were a lot of dogs. Maya was running after a dog.
TM: I will probably name a few things. A few things smaller than the main one. They have a very reverent attitude to bakery products. Even when during the pandemic they introduced a strict lockdown, that you can’t leave the house. The police go around checking. But at the same time, even in this lockdown decree it was officially written that you can go to the nearest bakery to buy bread. And the nearest bakery was determined by where you can walk. Accordingly, I can walk very far, I could walk in principle through the 3 nearest districts and tell everyone that I’m going to the nearest bakery. It was absolutely legal. They drink tea, coffee, it’s just a culture of communication for them, to sit down. Tea-coffee, cigarettes and they can sit like this for two, three, four hours. There are coffee shops, tea houses and there are a lot of them. They can sit for a long time just chatting. Smoking one after another and drinking tea. Moreover, in many places, even in many restaurants, tea is offered for free. If you eat there, then at the end they will bring you tea and coffee, you can drink it. This is considered a tradition. Now, unfortunately, in many places they are canceling this because people have started to just go and drink tea for free. Just yesterday they offered us this, and I couldn’t help but take advantage of it.
About the mentality of the Turks
S: What can you tell us about the Turks, about their mentality? Are there any differences from ours?
T: There is a difference. I will express my own opinion. Turks love to gossip. Both women and men alike. Let’s say, to discuss someone else’s life. That’s like, well, first of all. They are hospitable, very hospitable. They will feed and water you. Always, if you are able to maintain a conversation, they will talk to you. They can provide a place to stay. And that’s it. And at the same time, you should not relax too much and fall for it. Yes, such hospitality is very cool. But then they can say something about you behind your back, there is not a very attractive face. Maybe for them it is not considered that something bad was said about you. And the person may not like it. They are more, but, probably, this is affected by the Muslim religion, they are more closed in terms of communication. Although, like all of us, they can be kind or not very kind. For me, the Turks. Among the Turks, I have several good acquaintances. I would not say friends. We communicated at work.
In general, if a person is friends with you, if this is your friend, then they treat you quite sincerely. If this is a nodding acquaintance, your husband’s acquaintances, then there is hope that they will love you, we perceive this in a special way, yes, they can whisper behind your back. I already said that not everyone has a positive attitude towards foreigners. They can ask such questions, seemingly harmless, but it can hurt. What are you doing here? Why did you come here? They are special, they are different, they are not like us. Good people are everywhere.
The main pros and cons of Turkey
S: What are the main pros and cons of Turkey for you?
A: In Turkey, plus fruits, vegetables almost all year round. Turkey will give you all this. Clothes, too, all of this is their own production. Therefore, the prices are good. Children’s clothes, adults can be found at an adequate price. People are also a big plus. In principle, the most important thing in any country is people. If people are adequate, good, pleasant, then you will be everywhere. But minuses, I do not see any big minuses for myself. To say that these are minuses. Apart from Istanbul specifically, roads and sidewalks, there are no other minuses for me. What are the main minuses and pluses in Turkey for you?
T: I don’t really see any downsides anymore. The only downside is that I can’t get a job, as long as I’m not a citizen of this country I can’t have an official job. That’s it. No other downsides. My friend, who recently came to Turkey. The downside is not knowing the language, first of all. If you came and learned the language. There are free courses. You can take courses. It’s not hard to learn a language, it’s as simple as math. Then life will be half as easy. Not knowing the language makes it very difficult. One small downside is medical care. Because I may be wrong, because the last time I went to Ukraine I compared the prices, and they were almost the same as in Turkey, but still, medicine here is a little more expensive than in Ukraine.
S: What can you tell us about Turkey in a few words?
A: Sunny, friendly, delicious, colorful if you come, it’s big. We found hiking trips. Hiking. Photos from there, very beautiful. There is something to see, something to try and something to see. T: I like it here. I find this country interesting in terms of living. In terms of studying history, culture, studying the language. Because I have learned so much and it doesn’t stop there. There is always something new. I am not agitating anyone to come here, it’s great here. I just want to say that I like it here in this country. I live quite comfortably. Long live Türkiye!
Results
S: What advice can you give to people who are planning to move to Turkey?
TM: Probably, they will find out everything in advance, don’t just come. If there is an opportunity to ask everything before arrival. There are many forums. It is all known, it will not be at random. You can read about documents, about an apartment. So that it doesn’t happen that you arrive and get confused. As much as possible and naturally, money, money is needed everywhere. You can’t do without money. Directly advice specifically about Turkey separately. Naturally, probably, maybe someone here is considering immigration to Turkey, then it is better to learn Turkish in advance. Because you shouldn’t count on English too much. Yes, many people here speak English, but the majority of them still speak Turkish. If in terms of immigration, then Turkish is necessary.
Don’t move to Turkey in search of work! Because even if you find a job here, and it is very difficult, and it is not the easiest thing to do, because, firstly, there are problems with obtaining a work visa, problems with the language in general. Because without the Turkish language, it is unlikely that you will be hired anywhere except in the tourism sector. By the way, in most cases, Ukrainians and Russians, Belarus and Slavs in principle go specifically to tourism. There, for the season, in hotels, animators, receptionists, and so on. And if somewhere outside this sphere, then, firstly, without Turkish, it will be a very big problem, secondly, obtaining a work permit to work legally will also be a big problem. Thirdly, even if you get all this. Then the salary that you will receive here will most likely not be enough for you to live. Unfortunately. And in most cases, it makes a lot of sense to go here either if you have some kind of online. There you can already earn 1000-1500 dollars online, that will be enough to live in Turkey with pleasure and with your head. And 2000 dollars is just gorgeous. Even better. Yes.
For example, I am here as a freelancer and it comes out to me 1500-2000 dollars in translations, while I am still working at the university. I want to stay there to work because it is a work visa and because it is actually insurance. Work visas if I work here for five or eight years without a break on a work visa. Then I can then apply for an indefinite residence permit. I will not need to renew it. I can already leave Turkey and come back. This will not be citizenship, it will be a permit to live in Turkey without a time limit. It seems to me that it will be a big plus if I stay here for a long time.
And so many people write on Facebook, help me find a job. We won’t help! Basically, that’s it. Come, it’s really cool to live here, in my opinion. If you have money. A small caveat.
S: What advice can you give to those who are planning to come to Turkey?
T: I can’t say that you need to learn the language. I can’t insist on it. It’s up to you. When you come to Turkey, you just need to understand that this is a country with a different mentality. Studying the history of Turkey briefly, I read that this country is not Muslim, it is a secular state. Here, first of all, there are social laws. And then religious ones. But the Muslim religion still leaves its mark. And you need to be, as it were, prepared for the fact that a foreigner may not always be understood correctly. Not always correctly interpret his behavior, attitude, but even appearance. Although in Istanbul, there are no problems with this. Such a request, when you go to Turkey, learn at least 20 words to start. Yes. And if the Turks hear that you said: hello, thank you, please in Turkish, they will assume that you already know Turkish.
